6A1/6A2

[homerisback]

Hi,
I sent a built and tested v3.3 module to a 9-5 owner and the behaviour isn't that was expected
Here's the quote of his issue :
"When I connect the module to my Saab 9-5, it does not work. My phone connects to bluetooth, but my radio does not switch over when I press the CD button. Even more strange, when the unit is connected, my car won't start !!!
When i start the car and connect the Bluesaab module, I get the exclamation mark in my display and the airbag light goes on. I read someting on the forum about the airbag light but it's not clear to me. The changer emulator still does not work...."

I asked him more details about his car which I know has the AS3 audio system. Did anyone here found a solution to this issue ?
Thanks

[Seth]

Sounds like the communication isn't working right. I would reflash with the latest code (if possible).

[homerisback]

It would be possible but I don't understand how the code could be altered by the time it's been sent and I can't believe it...
In this module, I flashed the 4.0 revision of code and it was working flawlessly in my 01' 9-3 with AS3.
Could the car be to recent and need some tweak in the code to work correctly ? Like sending the 6A2 frame ?
I'd like to play with a 9-5 to find out what's wrong here.

[Karlis]

Definitely looks like communication issues. What MY is that 9-5? What SN chip was used on that module?

Code-wise we haven't touched the part of the code responsible for 6A1/6A2 for quite some time now. Having the "magic" triangle and/or SRS indicator to come up, technically means that there's a fault in pre-checks of all nodes.

[Ziq]

What i've seen is when I spam the bus too much I get an airbag warning and when the bus is completely blocked (short circuit of bus linesin my case) the car won't start. I suspect it doesn't have much to do with the content, judt that the expected messages don't arrive in time. 

I'd suggest to first remount it to make sure of proper connection. 

/Petter 

Den 24 feb. 2017 19:11 skrev "Karlis [via BlueSaab Forum]" <[hidden email]>:

Definitely looks like communication issues. What MY is that 9-5? What SN chip was used on that module?

Code-wise we haven't touched the part of the code responsible for 6A1/6A2 for quite some time now. Having the "magic" triangle and/or SRS indicator to come up, technically means that there's a fault in pre-checks of all nodes.

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[Herb]

It's a MY 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero with AS3 Audio.

There was no proper cable in the trunk so I looked for the 400129243 harnass to connect to the existing cable. see picture here:
However, I was not able to find one, untill I came up with this one: 400111738
 It's the same cable, except a little longer (100 cm) since on a 9-3 it starts at "B" boom halfway the car.

The connectors fit perfectly, or is there a difference between them?

Rest of audio components are identical, so could it be that the length is an issue? (ground of course was connected)

What I noticed when I hook it up and start the car, it runs for half a second then stalls, restart, again half a second. 3rd time does not start at all. As soon as I take the Bluesaab off (luckily I did not hide it behind the carpet  ) it would jump straight on. Then when the enigne runs and I connect, the Airbag signals appear. (and still no sound) I was eager to get it all working since I have a 1000 km trip coming up tomorrow, but it looks like I have to carry some old fashkioned CD's with me....

[Seth]

I'm sure that cable will work fine; it's probably for the 9-5's that have the two connectors near the foot well of the A pillar; other cars have the connectors near the rear shock tower, so that cable is even shorter.

That MY shouldn't be a problem at all.

It really sounds like the bus is being flooded or something. Can you see what the can lights are doing? They shouldn't be solid; one should be flickering pretty steadily. 

Still sounds like a communication issue, and the sound will never work until the comms are working.

Sorry for the trouble before your trip :-/

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 16:04 Herb [via BlueSaab Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's a MY 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero with AS3 Audio.

There was no proper cable in the trunk so I looked for the 400129243 harnass to connect to the existing cable. see picture here:
However, I was not able to find one, untill I came up with this one: 400111738
 It's the same cable, except a little longer (100 cm) since on a 9-3 it starts at "B" boom halfway the car.

The connectors fit perfectly, or is there a difference between them?

Rest of audio components are identical, so could it be that the length is an issue? (ground of course was connected)

What I noticed when I hook it up and start the car, it runs for half a second then stalls, restart, again half a second. 3rd time does not start at all. As soon as I take the Bluesaab off (luckily I did not hide it behind the carpet  ) it would jump straight on. Then when the enigne runs and I connect, the Airbag signals appear. (and still no sound) I was eager to get it all working since I have a 1000 km trip coming up tomorrow, but it looks like I have to carry some old fashkioned CD's with me....

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[Herb]

Officially the cable is for 9-3 models from MY 00 and upwards.

I did not open the bluesaab module when I connected, so thats what I will do later when I return. I will also make some pics of the cables and connectors and post them here.

Thanks so far for your prompt reply !

Br,

Herbert

[Ziq]

Length shouldn't be an issue, I'm currently running a 4m extension cable and having my kit in the front passager seat. I would beep the connectors to make sure nothing is wrong there. The problem sounds identical to when my temporary cable short circuited after being run over a couple of times with the stroller. Since it was not always there I didn't realize the reason until I left it at the repair shop for troubleshooting..  So I would doublecheck so that Ibus+ and Ibus- are not connected, neither in the cable or on the board.. 

Petter

Den 24 feb. 2017 22:04 skrev "Herb [via BlueSaab Forum]" <[hidden email]>:

It's a MY 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero with AS3 Audio.

There was no proper cable in the trunk so I looked for the 400129243 harnass to connect to the existing cable. see picture here:
However, I was not able to find one, untill I came up with this one: 400111738
 It's the same cable, except a little longer (100 cm) since on a 9-3 it starts at "B" boom halfway the car.

The connectors fit perfectly, or is there a difference between them?

Rest of audio components are identical, so could it be that the length is an issue? (ground of course was connected)

What I noticed when I hook it up and start the car, it runs for half a second then stalls, restart, again half a second. 3rd time does not start at all. As soon as I take the Bluesaab off (luckily I did not hide it behind the carpet  ) it would jump straight on. Then when the enigne runs and I connect, the Airbag signals appear. (and still no sound) I was eager to get it all working since I have a 1000 km trip coming up tomorrow, but it looks like I have to carry some old fashkioned CD's with me....

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[Karlis]

This sounds plausible. I would start with checking for shorts on MCP2515 and SN x-ciever chips as everything seems to be working fine when the module is not connected to the car. So I doubt it's the cable...

[Seth]

Agreed. If the car works without module plugged in, then there's your problem. So definitely check for a hardware issue on the module, and update to the latest BlueSaab software release.

Please report back if you find anything!

[homerisback]

Hi guys,
I couldn't reply before but could the third party wiring be faulty : i.e. CAN H & CAN L wires inverted ?
As I built the module myself, I checked all my solderings twice with a magnifying glass and cleaned the whole board from flux residus. I had it fully working in my car... It wouldn't have been working if CAN comms were bad, would it ?

[homerisback]

Hi there,
A fellow saabist hooked a v3.3 BlueSAAB in his 2003 9-5 using the harness 400129243 and he reported it working absolutely flawlessly . Many thanks to him for the feedback !

When I google the two parts with their reference number, I find that 400129243 is dedicated to 9-5s where 400111738 goes to 9-3s. I suppose there are slight differences (except its length) in the wiring setup that may cause Herbert's issue with the 400111738 harness in his 9-5.

The best way to solve that would be either to order the correct 9-5 harness : https://www.esaabparts.com/saab/parts/400129243 or to identify every incoming cable from car's harness (12V, GND, CAN H, CAN L, R+, R-, L+, L-) and connect it to the correct cable going to BlueSAAB... maybe a bit painful but worth the try.
I suggest Herbert to start with this before going into BlueSAAB's hardware or even software. Hope this would help.

[Seth]

I guess it's possible that the difference in those cables is the ibus lines being switched; everything else *should* be the same...(although you would think *everything* would be the same, so who knows) but if the ibus isn't connected properly then yeah, things won't work right. It could be that reversing these wires is causing enough of a bus problem that the car can't talk at all. OR if one of those lines is being grounded or pulled to 12v, that would disturb the bus also. 

Thanks for providing that info on the harnesses!

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 11:09 homerisback [via BlueSaab Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi there,
A fellow saabist hooked a v3.3 BlueSAAB in his 2003 9-5 using the harness 400129243 and he reported it working absolutely flawlessly . Many thanks to him for the feedback !

When I google the two parts with their reference number, I find that 400129243 is dedicated to 9-5s where 400111738 goes to 9-3s. I suppose there are slight differences in the wiring setup that may cause Herbert's issue with the 400111738 harness in his 9-5.

The best way to solve that would be either to order the correct 9-5 harness : https://www.esaabparts.com/saab/parts/400129243 or to identify every incoming cable from car's harness (12V, GND, CAN H, CAN L, R+, R-, L+, L-) and connect it to the correct cable going to BlueSAAB... maybe a bit painful but worth the try.
I suggest Herbert to start with this before going into BlueSAAB's hardware or even software. Hope this would help.

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[sbt]

Seth wrote

I guess it's possible that the difference in those cables is the ibus lines
being switched; everything else *should* be the same...(although you would
think *everything* would be the same, so who knows) but if the ibus isn't
connected properly then yeah, things won't work right. It could be that
reversing these wires is causing enough of a bus problem that the car can't
talk at all. OR if one of those lines is being grounded or pulled to 12v,
that would disturb the bus also.

Thanks for providing that info on the harnesses!

I'd be really surprised if the pin-out on two different connectors in different locations in different models is the same. Their being plug compatible means little when pretty much all 6 way connectors in the loom on these cars are the same shape. From the symptoms described (can start once, twice, but not thrice), I'd say there's a crossed wire with the BlueSaab plugged in; hopefully the module has not been permanently damaged. Since Antoine reports it was working when built, that's another reason to suspect this additional cable harness.

If no one has access to the WIS for these models and can check the wiring diagrams definitively, the next best thing would be close up pics of the connectors at the ends of these cables; the cable colours might give confirmation that these are different. Can anyone with a 9-5 and the 400129243 part oblige?

If it's just the pinout that's wrong on one end, should be able to fix by rearranging the pins in the connector at the non-CDC end.

[Herb]

So, time for an update.

Last weekend I finally found the time to have a quick look at the Bluesaab module and the wires. I looked up some color scheme's and soon found out that CanL and CanH are swapped. (I could have noticed that when installing, however time-pressure and assumption don't make the best combination).

So now it all works and I can connect my phone. But there is something wrong with te sound quality. There is distortion on the right channel (high frequency noise) and there is a mismatch in volume. Left channel is higher then right channel (although balance is center) I think that the pre-amplifier is the cause, I will try to disconnect it and use some breadboard wires to reconnect them and bypass the pre-amplifier.

Is there a software mod when  deconnecting the pre-amp, or is that just hardware?

Thanks!

Herbert

2017-02-26 23:56 GMT+01:00 sbt [via BlueSaab Forum] <[hidden email]>:

Seth wrote

I guess it's possible that the difference in those cables is the ibus lines
being switched; everything else *should* be the same...(although you would
think *everything* would be the same, so who knows) but if the ibus isn't
connected properly then yeah, things won't work right. It could be that
reversing these wires is causing enough of a bus problem that the car can't
talk at all. OR if one of those lines is being grounded or pulled to 12v,
that would disturb the bus also.

Thanks for providing that info on the harnesses!

I'd be really surprised if the pin-out on two different connectors in different locations in different models is the same. Their being plug compatible means little when pretty much all 6 way connectors in the loom on these cars are the same shape. From the symptoms described (can start once, twice, but not thrice), I'd say there's a crossed wire with the BlueSaab plugged in; hopefully the module has not been permanently damaged. Since Antoine reports it was working when built, that's another reason to suspect this additional cable harness.

If no one has access to the WIS for these models and can check the wiring diagrams definitively, the next best thing would be close up pics of the connectors at the ends of the these cables; the cable colours might give confirm that these are different. Can anyone with a 9-5 and the 400129243 part oblige?

If it's just the pinout that's wrong on one end, should be able to fix by rearranging the pins in the connector at the non-CDC end.

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[Ziq]

Sounds like one of the right channel wires is not properly connected (encountered this as well..). Since the audio is differential you will still here whats coming on the other wire but the without a proper reference you get bad volume and lots of interference.. 

/Petter 

Den 27 mars 2017 09:12 skrev "Herb [via BlueSaab Forum]" <[hidden email]>:

So, time for an update.

Last weekend I finally found the time to have a quick look at the Bluesaab module and the wires. I looked up some color scheme's and soon found out that CanL and CanH are swapped. (I could have noticed that when installing, however time-pressure and assumption don't make the best combination).

So now it all works and I can connect my phone. But there is something wrong with te sound quality. There is distortion on the right channel (high frequency noise) and there is a mismatch in volume. Left channel is higher then right channel (although balance is center) I think that the pre-amplifier is the cause, I will try to disconnect it and use some breadboard wires to reconnect them and bypass the pre-amplifier.

Is there a software mod when  deconnecting the pre-amp, or is that just hardware?

Thanks!

Herbert

2017-02-26 23:56 GMT+01:00 sbt [via BlueSaab Forum] <[hidden email]>:

Seth wrote

I guess it's possible that the difference in those cables is the ibus lines
being switched; everything else *should* be the same...(although you would
think *everything* would be the same, so who knows) but if the ibus isn't
connected properly then yeah, things won't work right. It could be that
reversing these wires is causing enough of a bus problem that the car can't
talk at all. OR if one of those lines is being grounded or pulled to 12v,
that would disturb the bus also.

Thanks for providing that info on the harnesses!

I'd be really surprised if the pin-out on two different connectors in different locations in different models is the same. Their being plug compatible means little when pretty much all 6 way connectors in the loom on these cars are the same shape. From the symptoms described (can start once, twice, but not thrice), I'd say there's a crossed wire with the BlueSaab plugged in; hopefully the module has not been permanently damaged. Since Antoine reports it was working when built, that's another reason to suspect this additional cable harness.

If no one has access to the WIS for these models and can check the wiring diagrams definitively, the next best thing would be close up pics of the connectors at the ends of the these cables; the cable colours might give confirm that these are different. Can anyone with a 9-5 and the 400129243 part oblige?

If it's just the pinout that's wrong on one end, should be able to fix by rearranging the pins in the connector at the non-CDC end.

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NAML

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[Karlis]

You are on the right path. I'd also start with disconnecting the AMP board and letting the module run without it. That's good troubleshooting starting point. There is no software mod needed for bypassing the AMP board. The only thing you have to do is to short the pins on the 10-pin connector. It goes without saying, nut make sure you DON'T short the V+ and GND pins as that will cause an explosion :).

[Herb]

Hello,

Anyone alive here :-)  It's been a while since my last post. I couldn't solve the issue quick enough apparently so I left it (and forgot about it)  

Until this week when I needed some oil, and guess what, next to my oil can in the left storage boot compartment lies the Bluesaab module

So it reminded me (more than a year later) to connect the wires and bypass the mini amplifier. So, I figured out the wiring, (which was very logical soldered) and bypassed it. Now the volume is good ! (better than with the amp) but still the left signals are louder and on the right signal there is still a distortion (that goes up and down with volume)  It's loud enough to annoy me.

I know it's a bit late since your last replies, but help is still appreciated.

The model is a 3.3 , amp is ths4522 v 1.1

Any thoughts of what could be the issue?

Thank in advance to all.

Br,

Herb

[Karlis]

Still alive and kicking. :)

From the symptoms it sounds like a bad connection somewhere. I had a similar issue on my '06 9-5 and the problem turned out to be corrosion at the GND point of XM module connector in the trunk.